Comments on: Review of Keen’s “Cult of the Amateur” http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/ Weblog about the Citizendium project and its Citizens. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:47:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: David Gerard http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24715 David Gerard Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:39:25 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24715 Mr Keen's own qualifications to speak on the matter are less than clear. Sociologist? Primary source for sociologists, even? I suspect I could show more qualification. Mr Keen’s own qualifications to speak on the matter are less than clear. Sociologist? Primary source for sociologists, even? I suspect I could show more qualification.

]]> By: Larry Sanger http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24718 Larry Sanger Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:49:00 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24718 Spoken like a true defender of the Wikipedia way, David Gerard. Spoken like a true defender of the Wikipedia way, David Gerard.

]]> By: John http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24889 John Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:08:05 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-24889 Keen constantly banging on about "our values" being eroded was annoying for me, as was his defence of the music and film industry; despite his scaremongering over a cultural Armageddon, I don't see Sony going under. Having said that, much of what he says about Wikipedia is basically justified; the latest embarrassment being Wikinews wasting police time over the circumstances surrounding wrestler Chris Benoit's death. Keen constantly banging on about “our values” being eroded was annoying for me, as was his defence of the music and film industry; despite his scaremongering over a cultural Armageddon, I don’t see Sony going under. Having said that, much of what he says about Wikipedia is basically justified; the latest embarrassment being Wikinews wasting police time over the circumstances surrounding wrestler Chris Benoit’s death.

]]> By: Ian Johnson http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-25001 Ian Johnson Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:35:14 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-25001 I am part way through the book, so look forward to seeing if your conclusions resemble my own. Keen's is the first 'mass media shaking of the 2.0 tree' with traction that I can recall. Earlier 'old media' commentary seemed to uncritically sing the praise of 2.0 technology without question as to any wider potential negative social implications. In relation to anonymous user generated content, and the resulting potential for loss of societal trust in the accuracy of key information sources that can arise, the current Google-Wikipedia waltz concerns me a great deal, especially given the large potential for information flaws in that particular encyclopaedia. It seems ironic - given its alleged potential for negative impacts on the availability over time of other information sources - that Wikipedia does not require itself to be, or become, a "reliable source". Yet at the same time it relies on there remaining available sufficient reliable sources to justify content inclusion, and thereby its own existence. Thanks for your review. - Ian Johnson I am part way through the book, so look forward to seeing if your conclusions resemble my own.

Keen’s is the first ‘mass media shaking of the 2.0 tree’ with traction that I can recall. Earlier ‘old media’ commentary seemed to uncritically sing the praise of 2.0 technology without question as to any wider potential negative social implications.

In relation to anonymous user generated content, and the resulting potential for loss of societal trust in the accuracy of key information sources that can arise, the current Google-Wikipedia waltz concerns me a great deal, especially given the large potential for information flaws in that particular encyclopaedia.

It seems ironic - given its alleged potential for negative impacts on the availability over time of other information sources - that Wikipedia does not require itself to be, or become, a “reliable source”. Yet at the same time it relies on there remaining available sufficient reliable sources to justify content inclusion, and thereby its own existence.

Thanks for your review. - Ian Johnson

]]> By: Viviane http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-31026 Viviane Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:36:24 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-31026 Thank you very much for this preview. I think this debate is not going over the right thing. Internet is only showing more clearly more structural aspects of our society. This Cult of amateurism is following me an effect of the myth of the equality (translation for French). Believing eveybody is 'equal' means that everybody has en equal access to knowledge, public spaces, politics, education... But we know, this is not true. It is even worse than we think because the society is becoming more dual than we think: the mass and the others having the decisional power, money... The main problem is this how we stratify and structure the society and with the rising of mass tools (internet, media, telivision...), the mainstreaming mass is more compact than ever, and real changes in the hands of very very fews. Thank you very much for this preview. I think this debate is not going over the right thing. Internet is only showing more clearly more structural aspects of our society. This Cult of amateurism is following me an effect of the myth of the equality (translation for French). Believing eveybody is ‘equal’ means that everybody has en equal access to knowledge, public spaces, politics, education… But we know, this is not true. It is even worse than we think because the society is becoming more dual than we think: the mass and the others having the decisional power, money… The main problem is this how we stratify and structure the society and with the rising of mass tools (internet, media, telivision…), the mainstreaming mass is more compact than ever, and real changes in the hands of very very fews.

]]> By: Britta http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-32520 Britta Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:15:15 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-32520 I know that the internet is allowing people to pirate music and vidoes, robbing artists of money. However I must draw the line where the author states that youtube ''steals culture.....'' As far as i am concerned, hundreds of people have gotten jobs in one field or another by posting and using youtube. I know a man who posted a video of himself doing a ''robot dance'' and he got to star in a dancing movie after someone in hollywood saw it. Another man Liam Sullivan made it big when he wrote various sketches/songs such as ''Shoes'' and Txt Msg Break Up''. He went on tour and now sells merchandise for what he has written. As far as i am concerned, the internet is a way of self expression so lang as the users are ''safe'' and do not do anything illegal. I have to strongly disagree with the statement that the internet ''steals culture'' It enhances American's insights as far as how colorful the world really is. Knowlege is power and i do not believe that knowlege should be limited in a SOCIETY where information is something you cannot live without. The world has changed and we have to find a way to get over it and focus on illegal acts on computers instead of what ppeople actually benefit from. I know that the internet is allowing people to pirate music and vidoes, robbing artists of money. However I must draw the line where the author states that youtube ‘’steals culture…..” As far as i am concerned, hundreds of people have gotten jobs in one field or another by posting and using youtube. I know a man who posted a video of himself doing a ”robot dance” and he got to star in a dancing movie after someone in hollywood saw it. Another man Liam Sullivan made it big when he wrote various sketches/songs such as ”Shoes” and Txt Msg Break Up”. He went on tour and now sells merchandise for what he has written. As far as i am concerned, the internet is a way of self expression so lang as the users are ‘’safe” and do not do anything illegal. I have to strongly disagree with the statement that the internet ‘’steals culture” It enhances American’s insights as far as how colorful the world really is. Knowlege is power and i do not believe that knowlege should be limited in a SOCIETY where information is something you cannot live without. The world has changed and we have to find a way to get over it and focus on illegal acts on computers instead of what ppeople actually benefit from.

]]> By: KlangenFarben http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-41234 KlangenFarben Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:24:02 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-41234 Keen is as self-righteous as they come. Disreputable information does not come only from amateurs, but professionals with an ax to grind. Fortunately this guy will never have the power to keep the workers from owning means of production. Keen is as self-righteous as they come. Disreputable information does not come only from amateurs, but professionals with an ax to grind.

Fortunately this guy will never have the power to keep the workers from owning means of production.

]]> By: Mark http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-48888 Mark Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:00:42 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-48888 Great Review. I actually found out about citizendium from the book. Great Review. I actually found out about citizendium from the book.

]]> By: Hubris, meet Nemesis « http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-56061 Hubris, meet Nemesis « Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:19:44 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-56061 [...] Larry Sanger [...] […] Larry Sanger […]

]]> By: Citizendium Blog » Reactionary? http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-75572 Citizendium Blog » Reactionary? Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:48:24 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-75572 [...] a blog post by Ethan Zuckerman, discussing a talk by Andrew Keen of Cult of the Amateur infamy: [Keen is] a fan of Citizendium, the Larry Sanger project to create a wikipedia by [...] […] a blog post by Ethan Zuckerman, discussing a talk by Andrew Keen of Cult of the Amateur infamy: [Keen is] a fan of Citizendium, the Larry Sanger project to create a wikipedia by […]

]]> By: JB http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-81883 JB Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:36:09 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-81883 Are we all missing the point? Check out: http://lessig.org/blog/2007/05/keens_the_cult_of_the_amateur.html We've all been had, especially the 'professional media industry'. Are we all missing the point? Check out: http://lessig.org/blog/2007/05/keens_the_cult_of_the_amateur.html
We’ve all been had, especially the ‘professional media industry’.

]]> By: Larry Sanger http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-81985 Larry Sanger Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:02:16 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-81985 Not sure what you're talking about, JB. What point are we missing, and how have we been "had"? Not sure what you’re talking about, JB. What point are we missing, and how have we been “had”?

]]> By: SEO Singapore http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-107307 SEO Singapore Sun, 25 May 2008 16:02:43 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2007/07/17/review-of-keens-cult-of-the-amateur-2/#comment-107307 There's still much to be seen about the true Web 2.0 potential. There are many Web 2.0 companies but not many have the potential to be listed. There’s still much to be seen about the true Web 2.0 potential. There are many Web 2.0 companies but not many have the potential to be listed.

]]>