Comments on: Citizendium is different http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/ Weblog about the Citizendium project and its Citizens. Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:43:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Aaron Schulz http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-99889 Aaron Schulz Fri, 02 May 2008 03:51:16 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-99889 Interesting. Though I'm not sure I'd buy the bit about the WMF. Part of the board is elected, and those members appoint the others. Additionally, the foundation tries to avoid making community-level decisions as much as possible. For example, things like Flagged Revisions or Notability policy are not handing down onto the various projects and languages. They are community decisions. Unless the board is taking important decisions away from the community, I'm not sure it's far to say that it is not "controlled by" us. As for the part about owning it, any project is going to need some formal legally responsible group to fund the servers, DNS stuff, deal with legal issues, and keep the site going. I'm not sure what major organizations don't have that, or why it would be better not to. Even CZ has to have some kind of foundation. Interesting. Though I’m not sure I’d buy the bit about the WMF. Part of the board is elected, and those members appoint the others. Additionally, the foundation tries to avoid making community-level decisions as much as possible. For example, things like Flagged Revisions or Notability policy are not handing down onto the various projects and languages. They are community decisions. Unless the board is taking important decisions away from the community, I’m not sure it’s far to say that it is not “controlled by” us. As for the part about owning it, any project is going to need some formal legally responsible group to fund the servers, DNS stuff, deal with legal issues, and keep the site going. I’m not sure what major organizations don’t have that, or why it would be better not to. Even CZ has to have some kind of foundation.

]]> By: Alex Morega http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-99949 Alex Morega Fri, 02 May 2008 07:19:20 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-99949 You make an excellent point about self-governance; I think it's Citizendium's greatest strength. But if you want another project that is governed by a democratic process in which its members participate, take a look at Debian. Granted, not all contributors are "full citizens" (officially called Debian Developers), but anyone can become a Developer, and there's more than 1000 of them. It would be interesting to compare the organizational structure of Citizendium and Debian. You make an excellent point about self-governance; I think it’s Citizendium’s greatest strength. But if you want another project that is governed by a democratic process in which its members participate, take a look at Debian. Granted, not all contributors are “full citizens” (officially called Debian Developers), but anyone can become a Developer, and there’s more than 1000 of them. It would be interesting to compare the organizational structure of Citizendium and Debian.

]]> By: Anthony Sebastian http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-100571 Anthony Sebastian Sun, 04 May 2008 18:45:14 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-100571 Self-governance implies self-development. Self-development includes proposals for improving the quality and scope of Citizendium, trying new initiatives, and many others. Self-governance implies self-development. Self-development includes proposals for improving the quality and scope of Citizendium, trying new initiatives, and many others.

]]> By: David Stodolsky http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-102652 David Stodolsky Sun, 11 May 2008 13:11:22 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-102652 "The way in which our little (but growing!) project is different from almost everything out there is that it is, arguably, the first truly self-governing content community." The fatal flaw is the lack of 'secret ballot' voting. Once the project is well underway there will be power differences among the participants. To expect fair treatment and non-strategic voting without the protection of anonymity is to overlook the historical evidence and the fundamental principles of democracy. “The way in which our little (but growing!) project is different from almost everything out there is that it is, arguably, the first truly self-governing content community.”

The fatal flaw is the lack of ’secret ballot’ voting. Once the project is well underway there will be power differences among the participants. To expect fair treatment and non-strategic voting without the protection of anonymity is to overlook the historical evidence and the fundamental principles of democracy.

]]> By: Larry Sanger http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-102691 Larry Sanger Sun, 11 May 2008 17:27:53 +0000 http://blog.citizendium.org/2008/05/01/citizendium-is-different/#comment-102691 There is no such "fatal flaw," David. If we see open voting to be a problem, we can set up a system to mask it. Moreover, we can do so precisely because we use real names and can do reasonable due diligence to confirm that a person really is a unique CZ member (not a sockpuppet). There have been no significant problems about strategic voting and power plays among Editorial Council members, as far as I know. There is no such “fatal flaw,” David. If we see open voting to be a problem, we can set up a system to mask it. Moreover, we can do so precisely because we use real names and can do reasonable due diligence to confirm that a person really is a unique CZ member (not a sockpuppet).

There have been no significant problems about strategic voting and power plays among Editorial Council members, as far as I know.

]]>