Citizendium Blog

May 14, 2008

The revolution: name it and own it?

Filed under: Web 2.0, Theory — Larry Sanger @ 5:20 am

What do the following pieces of jargon have in common?

  • free software
  • open source software (OSS, FOSS)
  • open content 
  • Internet communities
  • Web 2.0
  • strong collaboration
  • mass collaboration
  • collaborative revolution
  • crowdsourcing
    (Can you add to this list?)

Answer: they are all used to describe the phenomenon of a bunch of people working together online, in open communities, to create specific bodies of free information, like open source software, Citizendium, Wikipedia, YouTube, Flickr, Slashdot, Web forums and mailing lists, and so forth.  Granted, they each mean something slightly different.  Internet geeks can expound on the differences and meanings at great length.

What name will win out in the long run?  Or does that question not make sense — are we really dealing with many significantly different phenomena here, which really need all these different descriptors?

April 8, 2008

New video about Wikipedia & Web 2.0

Filed under: Press & blogs, Web 2.0 — Larry Sanger @ 8:29 am

Some Dutch filmmakers made a documentary (48 minutes), in English, titled “The Truth according to Wikipedia.”  It’s pretty good, but I’m too close to the story to be able to offer anything like an objective opinion.  It’s pretty heavy on Andrew Keen and his over-the-top yet strangely entertaining criticism of the Internet.  I’m in there, talking about Wikipedia; no mention of CZ, unfortunately, but you can’t ask for everything.

December 6, 2007

CZ receives “Award of Excellence” from the Society for New Communications Research

Filed under: Press & blogs, Web 2.0 — Larry Sanger @ 7:54 pm

As was announced at an awards ceremony this evening (I unfortunately couldn’t attend), the Citizendium received an “Award of Excellence” from the Society for New Communications Research.  We are grateful to the Society for the recognition.

November 29, 2007

What’s the point?

Filed under: Policy, Web 2.0 — Larry Sanger @ 7:45 am

The bottom line: our aim is quality, not quantity.  We already know that “crowds” can produce massive quantities of content.  Big deal.  The Citizendium is about developing our massive quantities of content into works of stunning quality, over the long term.  We have a better shot than anyone at doing this.

Many people have essentially asked me, “Since Wikipedia is ‘good enough,’ what is the point of the Citizendium?” The answer, of course, is that Wikipedia isn’t good enough, and given its policies, it is highly unlikely that it ever will be. More to the point, over the long haul, the Citizendium can do better.

But that’s always my reply. It now occurs to me that the underlying insight has not been emphasized enough. As I look at various encyclopedia articles — and my own writings — I am struck by how much work there is to do, to perfect them. For example, to find exactly the right reference, and place it at exactly the right place, is very difficult and time-consuming. Most people don’t spend the time needed to get it exactly right. A work is hailed as brilliant if it merely doesn’t get anything too badly wrong. Well, the great thing about the Citizendium is that we have the (growing) community and the (developing) policies that is allowing us to grow not just another encyclopedia, but a continuously improving encyclopedia. That is the brilliance of our plan.

The day we look forward to is not the day when we have millions of articles, but the day when serious professionals say, “The Citizendium articles in my area are of such stunning quality that I can’t imagine how they could be improved. They have been worked and reworked by hundreds, or thousands, of specialists, in my field. They contain, of course, no known factual errors. The coverage is complete; the tiniest details are covered in more specialized articles. The writing reflects consistently superb craftsmanship: accessible to the college student on more basic topics (without removing accuracy), and clear on more advanced topics. The citations are brilliantly chosen, always reflecting the best (original, or most authoritative) sources. They do not favor any side in any controversy, but provide full details of the debate, so that the reader can be fully informed so as to make up his or her own mind. The bibliographies and external links, fully annotated, list virtually every credible source on their topics. The other supplementary material, on subpages, is of equally high quality. In short, the only reason to change the articles (and whole clusters) now is that the field itself changes.”

An article is one thing. A magisterial article is quite another. The difference is huge and hugely important.

It’s a long road from here to there. Wikipedia is very, very far from that point, and again I doubt it will ever reach that point; if I thought they could, I wouldn’t have started CZ. We, however, have a chance!

In fact, in view of this, you might well ask yourself: what is the point of Wikipedia? It’s never going to get past a certain level of mediocrity; that’s one of the main reasons I stopped working on it a while ago. I think that, as the years go by, we are going to find more and more people asking themselves that — and coming to CZ. Because it’s not just about quantity. It’s about quality. And we have the nascent community and policies in place that actually have a chance to achieve the sort of high quality a global collaboration of scholars can achieve.

Mind you, I still think it’s all right if we start with stubs; we have to start somewhere. But we should also keep our eyes on the prize, because our substantial promise of achieving that sort of stunning quality is really what makes it all worthwhile.

November 19, 2007

The New Politics of Knowledge

Filed under: Experts, Governance, Internet, Web 2.0, Theory — Larry Sanger @ 11:34 am

Speech delivered at the Jefferson Society, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia, November 9, 2007, and at the Institute of European Affairs, Dublin, Ireland, September 28, 2007, as the inaugural talk for the IEA’s “Our Digital Futures” program.

I want to begin by asking a question that might strike you as perhaps a little absurd. The question is, “Why haven’t governments tried to regulate online communities more?” To be sure, there have been instances where governments have stepped in. For instance, in January of last year in Germany, the father of a deceased computer hacker used the German court system to try to have an article about his son removed from the German Wikipedia. As a result, wikipedia.de actually went offline for a brief period. It’s come back online, of course, and in fact the article in question is still up.

Here’s another example. In May of last year, attorneys general from eight U.S. states demanded that MySpace turn over the names of registered sex offenders lurking on the website, which as you probably know is heavily frequented by teenagers. The website deleted pages of some 7,000 registered sex offenders. And the following July, they said that in fact some 29,000 registered sex offenders had accounts, which were subsequently deleted.

Those are just a few examples. But we can make some generalizations. The Internet is famously full of outrageously false, defamatory, and offensive information, and is said to be a haven for criminal activity. This leads back to the question I asked earlier: why haven’t governments tried to regulate online communities even more than they have?

We might well find this question a little absurd, especially if we champion the liberal ideals that form the foundation of Western civil society. Indeed, no doubt one reason is our widespread commitment to freedom of speech. But consider another possible reason—one that, I think, is very interesting.

Read the rest here.

October 12, 2007

Wiki Markup Language: What You See Is… Messy

Filed under: Project growth, Technology, Web 2.0 — Mike Johnson @ 7:27 am

A few months ago, Jason Calacanis posted a piece on Wikipedia’s Technological Obscurification: Three ways Wikipedia keeps 99% of the population from participating. Not ever having missed a chance to be provocative, he opens with an argument that

The Wikipedia is currently designed to lower participation so it is easier to manage.

Now, I’m not saying it’s wrong to limit participation in Wikipedia–perhaps that’s what necessary to keep the project on track. However, I think we should be really honest about the fact that Wikipedia is not an open system–at least not open in the sense that anyone can participate. Let’s look at just three examples:
1. Wikipedia pages have become increasingly complex and Wikipedia doesn’t support a WYSIWYG editor. WYSIWYG stands for “what you see is what you get,” and that means that as you edit if you make something bold or underline you see bold or underline–just like Microsoft Word. Wikipedia doesn’t use a WYSIWYG because if they did more people could edit the pages–people without technology skills–and that would make the entire system collapse–at least according to the folks at the Wikipedia conference I attended.

For example, in this image you can see what it’s like to edit the George W. Bush page:

As you can see you need code in Wiki Markup language in order to edit this page.

 2. The Wikipedia uses “Discussion pages” to reach consensus, and these pages are also coded in mediaWiki so that 99% of people can’t figure them out.

3. The Wikipeda uses IRC chat, which 99% of folks don’t know how to use, in order to discuss the inner workings of Wikipedia.

Setting aside Calacanis’s speculations on why things are the way they are, I think he has some interesting facts on his side about participation.

The second and third points are fairly specific to Wikipedia, but the first point– that people can get buried in the complexity of MediaWiki’s arcane style of editing– is spot on for us, too. There’s no question in my mind that requiring contributors to learn arcane wiki markup language (instead of having an easy option for “what you see is what you get” editing) lowers participation and makes participation less democratic. Part of Citizendium’s stated mission is to be less insular than Wikipedia, and I think a necessary part of making that happen is to make editing easier.

Now, we’re juggling plenty of tech issues and plans, and it’s easy for important things to get put on the backburner. So I guess I just want to put the question out there, for when we have more resources: how important is it for Citizendium to have a What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get way to edit articles?

-Mike

October 4, 2007

Are blogs an exercise in vanity?

Filed under: Authors, Web 2.0, Other projects — Larry Sanger @ 9:33 am

The Internet and vanity are no strangers.  The eminently mockable vanity inherent in the self-revealing ”personal home pages” of the 1990s — I admit it, I had one on Geocities – can be found once again on MySpace, FaceBook, and personal blogs.  But unlike in the 1990s, our vanity is really getting in the way of a really lively, intelligent discourse.  Too many people would rather pretend to be broadcasters, which they’ll never be interesting enough to be, than find a neutral ground in which to exchange ideas and engage in a good old-fashioned dialogue.  Let’s bring back the discussion list!

I would go on, but I’ll save it for a post on SharedKnowing, the new, but old-fashioned, mailing list discussion about online knowledge communities.  Join here.

UPDATE: Digg this!

October 3, 2007

Join SharedKnowing - new discussion of online knowledge production communities

Filed under: Policy, Governance, Internet, Web 2.0, Other projects, Theory — Larry Sanger @ 3:16 pm

Dear All,

I’d like to invite you to join an old-fashioned discussion list, SharedKnowing:

http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/sharedknowing

This unmoderated (or semi-moderated) list will be devoted to well-reasoned, polite discussion and announcements about the nature of online knowledge production communities. It is open to everyone. I hope it might become a central clearing-house of general information and free, open, yet polite discussion about a cluster of issues that are of great interest to many people, and of growing importance to society at large.

See the list info page. There, I have explained:

  • Purpose of the list 
  • How to subscribe and unsubscribe
  • How to post
  • When will the discussion start?
  • Who should join
  • Core and example questions
  • Relevant and irrelevant Internet communities/websites
  • Other encouraged posts
  • Subjects that will be deemed off-topic
  • List rules
  • List management

To give people time to arrive, discussion will start in a few weeks.

I’m starting this list for several reasons. First, as a scholar (of sorts) and project organizer, I have an active, practical interest in these topics. Second, as I write and prepare speeches (something I’m doing a lot these days), I would like to have a big group of knowledgeable, like-minded friends to bounce ideas off of. Finally, quite honestly, I miss good old-fashioned discussion lists. Back in the 90s, I ran several, and one of them, ASP-Disc, was really great. I’d like to replicate that sort of lively community.

Please post this message as widely as possible!

Regards

Larry Sanger

(more…)

October 2, 2007

Powerful cyber-polities

Filed under: Governance, Web 2.0, Theory — Larry Sanger @ 10:52 am

The Institute of European Affairs, a prestigious Dublin, Ireland thinktank, invited me to kick off their “Our Digital Futures” program.  So I came and said a few more things about the politics of knowledge.  Here’s their summary of the talk:

Larry Sanger began by asking why governments have not regulated internet content more. The new “cyberpolitys”, communities on the internet, are generally assumed to be able to self regulate. Yet, looking far into the future, he posited the view that if Citizendium, his latest project, were to become an authoritative encyclopaedia for mankind, its internal governance would be of utmost importance. The more successful collaborative projects such as Wikipedia become, the more likely it is that an external authority will attempt to regulate their content. To avoid government intervention, the authoritative projects of the future must self govern to some extent. The best protection against undue government interference in open collaborative projects is internal governance. The Republican State may provide the best model through which future cyberpolitys can self govern. 

I had a number of comments about recent events.  I was delighted that Ireland’s Minister for Communication, Eamon Ryan, was on hand, among others, and had some kind things to say.

While there I also received a copy of IEA Senior Researcher Johnny Ryan’s new book, Countering Militant Islamist Radicalisation on the Internet: A User Driven Strategy to Recover the Web.  I might write more about that later — but who’da thunk Internet communities might be terrorism-fighting tools?  That’s what he suggests, and he makes a pretty compelling case for the thesis, from what I can tell.

You can listen here.

September 25, 2007

Why on Earth are Germans interested in my opinion of MySpace?

Filed under: Press & blogs, Web 2.0 — Larry Sanger @ 5:01 am

I got an interview request out of the blue from a Frankfurter Rundschau reporter last week.  He wanted to know what I thought about various Web 2.0 topics like Second Life and MySpace.  I gave him some off-the-cuff answers.  This was turned into a story: “MySpace wird bald uncool” or “MySpace will soon be uncool.”  :-) I am now the arbiter of coolness!!!

I didn’t quite say that; I just made the off-the-cuff observation, “More and more people will come to agree with me that MySpace-type social networking websites are annoying. Well, I don’t really know that, I’m just hoping.”  Believe me, I’m the last person you want to ask what will become cool or uncool to teenagers.  It is laughable to suppose I know anything, or care, about that.  I was just expressing my hopes, my dreams, :-) not actually making a prediction.  (Actually, I’m on FaceBook myself.)  I also don’t (or didn’t, until last week) know that boomers now have their own MySpace-clone social networks.  “Ehrlich gesagt, wusste ich gar nicht, dass so etwas schon existiert,” I said, but not in German.  But somehow, this seems plausible for the aging Aquarians I know.

CZ got a plug anyway!

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